Chris: Gary, thanks so much for joining us.

Gary: Thank you.

Chris: Now, you have just an amazing website, GaryNull.com. You have a food store, products and incredible amounts of information. Where does this passion for health that you so obviously have come from?

Gary: When I was growing up in a small town in West Virginia called Parkersburg, I noticed that no one ever got healthier the older they got. Even as a teenager I knew that when people were in their 30s they didn’t exercise and they started getting the pot bellies. By their 40s they had the wide spread. By their 50s they had diabetes and high blood pressure and cancer and arthritis. By their 60s, if they lived into their 60s they were considered to have lived a good life. It always bothered me that there was no one who believed that they could get younger or healthier. It was an inevitable, fatalistic view of life. Not in a negative sense. They just said, “Look, Gary, you’re supposed to go through these phases of life, these stages of life. By the time you’re 40 until death it’s all downhill and you just try to make the best you can of it.” That was the common belief. In a large family, on my father’s side they had like five sisters and three brothers. So it was a big family on just one side. So when I asked all these people, none of them were interested in stopping smoking, stopping social drinking, stopping the coffee which was four, five or six times a day, eating a heavy meat and mashed potatoes with gravy and muffins which were just white bread and butter, and drinking Kool-Aid. There was no such thing as fresh fruits in the wintertime. The salad was iceberg lettuce with a tasteless tomato and some kind of heavy salad dressing on it. Everybody overate. In fact, the idea was you couldn’t leave anything on your plate. Well, okay. Then put less on the plate to begin with. Oh no. To show that you were a middle class family you had to be able to put a lot of food on your plate. That was part of that whole middle class mystique. When I came to New York I just saw a different type of people. I saw a lot of artists and actors and writers who were much more progressive, much more independent in their thinking. They weren’t following the dogma. That’s where I developed this idea that what if we could do it differently? It was from that that I managed to get a position at the Institute of Applied Biology, a very famous lab where they did mainly cancer research and drug addiction research in an orthodox way. But the niece of the director of the lab was a friend of mine. They had a third floor that nobody wanted to use because it was just stuffed with all this old, broken equipment. They let me use it. No one ever went up there. I cleaned it out and I had about 3,000 square feet. I painted it and then I started doing some studies. Through those studies I was able to see that what you ate and how much you ate would ultimately impact upon the lifestyle. I started with rats and then after several years of my work becoming acceptable I then was moved over to Trafalgar Hospital where I could work with many of the patients and their diets. That’s where I formulated the living food approach to life, the vitalism, that everything you take into your mind and your body should have a vital energy, a healing energy, an energy that touches us and resonates with us. Something that excites us. Therefore I lived my life accordingly and my books, articles, television documentaries all come from that sense of vitalism. I don’t see being overweight as being our most serious problem. It is certainly serious. But why we become overweight, what makes us at some point make a bad choice and then repeat that day in and day out, it’s generally due to stress. An appropriate response to stress is also feeling so frustrated by what we can’t control in our life that we sublimate. Now some people drink, take drugs, marijuana, prescription medications - Zoloft, Paxil, Effexor, Valium. Others will gamble, even if they don’t have the money. In fact, I was recently doing a television PBS program in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania. When you come into this small town you come down this hill and the very first thing you see is this big old steel mill. It’s no longer a steel mill. It’s the Sands Gambling Casino. So I said to the person, “Why in the world would anybody want to go in there?” First it was just terribly ugly. Secondly they don’t have the money. Of course people that don’t have money think, “How can I get out of not having money? I’ll gamble. I’ll win it.” And they don’t. So look at all the ways that we sublimate. Now a reasonable person would not find the vast majority of things on television or radio interesting. Most of radio is redundant. You hear the same thing from the same person said in the same way almost every day. Most of it is about anger and blaming someone else for why we are the way that we are. For example, you’ll have people on the right blaming everyone on the left. All you have to do is listen for five minutes to anything that’s out there and it’s, “Well, those damn liberals and those progressives and those socialists, they’re our problem.” Then you listen on the left and it’s, “Those tea bag, racist idiots.” Neither are right but what kind of mind would waste its life and time allowing someone else’s biased, prejudiced and limited opinions to fill that mind? Then you have people watching television and what do most people watch on television? They watch programs that are trivia. So we become a whole society that has commoditized our lives. The commodities we put in our life are trivialized, they’re commercialized and they’re like Wonder Bread for the brain. When I realized that we are acting out and we’re not living an authentic life, well, if you’re not living an authentic life you’re not going to be happy. If you’re not happy how in the world can you be healthy? It is not possible to be healthy if you’re not happy. Happiness is the foundation upon which health is built. So we’ve put all of our energy into looking for the right vitamin - goji, that’s it, mangastine, oh my goodness, I’ve got to get my colonic with wheat grass. We spend all this money going off to all these places. I was recently doing my meditations. I’d go for a week. I’d meditate and I don’t eat. I just drink water. I fast. I do it alone generally up in the mountains, maybe somewhere out west. It might be in Colorado, might be in Wyoming, might be in Montana. This year it was in Arizona, up past Flagstaff. When you’re up past Flagstaff, Flagstaff I think is around 9,000 feet in the mountain areas there. Seven thousand below it I went to the highest mountain and meditated. On my way back I stopped off in Sedona. Well, there’s just a perfect example of beautiful red rocks. The only place in America where I’ve ever seen those wonderful, roughly small mountains but rock features that are just these wonderful colors of red. It’s not a large area. You can drive from one end to the other of this whole rock formation in 20 minutes. About 13,000 people live there, but it’s over developed. It reminds you of a tacky outpost where everything is, “Come and get authentic Indian…” Well, there’s nothing authentic and most of that stuff is just cheap. In any case, I stopped into a restaurant and I was having myself a salad. All these people came over and said, “You’re Gary Null. Why don’t you do a lecture for us?” I decided I would stay one extra night there and I did a lecture. The place was filled with people. I said, “How many of you are into health?” All these hands went up. “How many of you people are into life and love?” Hands went up. “Peace and non- violence?” Hands went up. “Giving and sharing.” Hands went up. “Helping make the world a better place.” Hands went up. I noticed there were a lot of homeless vets living in tents out by the mountains here. “How many of you have gone out to help one of these vets, maybe buy them some toiletries or take them food or take them into a hospital where they can get treated for some of their conditions?” No hands went up. “How many of you have gone to the battered women’s shelter to help some battered women?” No hands went up. “How many of you have become a big brother or big sister to some orphaned kids who could certainly use a nice loving, guiding adult in their life?” No hands went up. “How many of you have gone out on the streets here to find the homeless and to feed them at night?” No hands went up. Well, let me see then. You’re really into this image of yourself in a beautiful environment, so the image and environment create a fantasy. I live in the real world. I feed hungry people each night. I go in and find homeless vets and get them meds and get them tents and what they need. What lesson can we learn from this? Well, we learned a lesson that a lot of people in this country live through the myth of their stories. Their life is a myth but it’s a myth that they have mastered telling the story of so many times they believe it. What they can’t do, what they do believe. They’re very rigidified and not realizing that when you have a conversation most people are not listening to you. It’s their belief system that they’re talking through. That’s the problem. We get all these myths. In any case, you have to get by the myths to the actual person. More often than not that means you have to go through all this conditioning, all these subconscious tapes that they play millions of times. “Want to do something?” “No, I don’t want to do it.” “Want to try this?” “No, I don’t want to do that.” “Want to give up this bad habit?” “I want the results of giving it up but I don’t want to do that.” Then one day you go out in the streets. You look around. You just stand there and see all these people coming by you who are overweight. And you see people eating and drinking and smoking. You see people having all these unhealthy items in their body. Then you see people who if you went at home and took the roof off their house you’d see all these people watching mind numbingly stupid television. Most of what they watch is not just counter-intuitive but it’s counter-creative. You watch people like The Real Housewives. Boy, they’re real? False breasts, false lips, false ass, false everything, false brain. These people are mindless idiots, but boy let’s watch them. Why do we watch them? So we can see them throw temper tantrums and tip over tables and throw alcohol in someone’s face and pull their hair and scream and then act like terrible human beings? What exactly are we doing this for? I don’t blame the people who are exhibitionists and are insecure and trying to hustle anything they can. I question why anybody would make them famous by giving them credit they don’t deserve? So then when you start looking at we give bankers the money who are the same bankers who gambled and didn’t give us the benefits of the profit but wanted us to take a piece of their expenses and wanted us to pay for their losses. When a person loses money in a bank, we pay for it. When they make a profit, they keep it. Wonderful system. And then when it comes time to bail out the people we bail out the people who caused the problem and we don’t bail out the people who solved the problem. But unlike France and Italy and Spain and Ireland and England where they’ll go to the streets and protest we don’t protest. We don’t feel good protesting. It makes us feel uncomfortable, just like exercise makes us feel uncomfortable. Giving up bad habits, uncomfortable. We vote Republican thinking we’re going to be voting for smaller government and they gave us the biggest government in history. We vote Democrat thinking we’re voting for saving jobs, and under Clinton they gave us the Glass-Steagall Act taking it away, which allowed all this Capitalism to exist. Both are corporate elite. Neither one will help us and so we’re frustrated. We’re angry. When we’re frustrated and angry with not living an authentic life and having all of our major institutions betray us, we will make unhealthy choices. The very choice that we should make is one that is positive, constructive, that gives us an outcome that we want and we’ll make a choice that will give us more pain. Now our choice gives us diabetes or high blood pressure or elevated cholesterol or mood swings or insomnia or gastric reflux. But let’s not worry about the gastric reflux, eating the pizzas and the barbecued ribs. Let’s instead take the purple pill. Let’s not eat our kale and seaweed and sesame seeds so we mineralize our bones or take a good supplement with vitamin B3 and vitamin K2 and boron and phytonutrients and calcium and magnesium and phosphorous and manganese. No, let’s take Sally Fields’ advice. After all, she was a flying nun and hung out with Burt Reynolds. How bad could her advice be? Let’s not deal with how many aspirin we have to take to remove the pain of sitting on a tack. Let’s just get off the tack. Well, no, the non- steroidal anti-inflammitories like Aleve, we see it on television. This guy takes two Aleve while everyone else has to take six of the other ones. Yeah, but 1.6 million Americans were hospitalized for bleeding and other problems of non-steroidal anti-inflammitories. Sixty thousand died from taking Vioxx. The side effect twice mentioned is death from Celebrex. Hey, how about that? Let’s get rid of some of the pain in your elbow but die as a consequence. That’s a trade off. And let’s have an erection. Americans don’t have an erection. Who knew so many American men couldn’t get an erection? How about having an exciting sex life? No, instead having a boring sex life but having an erection that lasts longer than four hours, run up and down the street with a flag on it and call your doctor. We are screwed. I’m Chris Costello reporting for Michael Senoff’s

Chris: So it sounds like you’re talking a lot about a lot of this that boils down to personal responsibility.

Gary: We have no personal responsibility. That went out. If we were personally responsible, A, we would spend quality time with our children. B, we wouldn’t buy what we don’t need. C, we would go off the grid as much as possible. Don’t buy designer brands. Don’t shop in Wal-Mart. Don’t shop in K-Mart. Because then you’re shopping at a store that once you worked at the company that made the product that was outsourced to China. So you’re actually acknowledging that it’s okay for someone else to make a product that you once made, that has gainful employment that you don’t have, so you can buy something that you can’t afford and don’t need. Responsibility means that you think before you do something and look at the likely outcome, and then choose the outcome that you want and only support that and don’t get distracted in the process. It doesn’t have to be a group think. It doesn’t have to be a group consensus. A responsible person uses their intuition and does what is right with a light hand and a light touch and a sense of what is the likely outcome to me and my environment. If you do that then we’re not going to clutter up the oceans or the landfills. We’re not going to make the planet a mess. We’re going to live within our means.

Chris: One of the great concerns that many parents have right now is this skyrocketing increase of autism in young children. What do you think is going on with that and the whole vaccine issue? Would you like to share that with our listeners?

Gary: It’s very simple. We trust authority and that is a mistake. We don’t challenge that authority to prove to us beyond a reasonable doubt that what they’re asking us to put into our bodies or our children’s bodies are safe and effective. All that’s necessary is for a person to look at proof is something safe and effective and what is the proof that it’s not safe or effective? When I looked at vaccines, all vaccines, I could not find any evidence based on good quality, double blind studies that there was safety and efficacy in the individual multiple vaccines for any individual given. The proof was that multiple, multiple times I found that the persons getting the disease had been vaccinated. The only way you’re going to get polio today in the United States is taking the vaccine. I found kids who had taken all their measles shots as they were supposed to getting measles. Whooping cough the same. Then we were told that take the flu shot and the H1N1 and it will prevent this pandemic. Well, first, it was not a pandemic. Oh yeah, look at those 200 college kids at George Washington University. Well, all right, we contacted George Washington University. Indeed, over a period of time about 200 students called a hotline to ask about information or dropped by a dispensary there to ask information. None had their blood checked. None were shown to have the H1N1. That’s how you propagandize something. Taking a little tiny piece and making it into a huge issue. There’s an old Jewish saying, “A half truth is a full lie.” So there was no pandemic but as long as you could convince the world there was you could get them to take a vaccine that had never been proven safe or effective. That makes a lot of profit. And then to make sure that if anyone’s injured or killed they can’t sue or hold anyone responsible, you make vaccine manufactures indemnified from any legal issue. Now, you don’t do it with heart medications or psychiatric medications or a non-steroidal anti- inflammatory medication, but you do with vaccines. Why? That’s the power of profit making and that’s the power of law obeying. So we have this massive issue, are vaccines safe and effective? The answer’s no, there’s no proof that they’re safe and effective and a lot of proof they are not. Historically, especially those containing thimerosal which is an ethyl mercury versus what you get in tuna or fish or in the environment which is methyl mercury. But they both act very similar in the body. They’re a neuro-destructive. One part per billion of ethyl-mercury is enough to destroy a neuron. In fact, we proved that in the film Vaccine Nation. In fact, there was a doctor, a scientist who was the foremost creator and inventor of vaccines in American history, Dr. Hellman. Just before he died he wanted a person he knew in Toronto to film him in this kind of mia culpa where he confesses that virtually every single vaccine that he invented could create cancer and were not safe. He even talked about how when he injected the Saben vaccine into hamsters they developed cancer. He told Saben about it and he said Saben and him went really off the edge on that. They decided to cover it up, and that’s what they did. Well, later we found out that they had covered it up but nothing had happened to him or the company making it. We’d been lied to. So the trouble is we don’t want to hear we’ve been lied to. We don’t want to know our journalists are biased and are not going to tell us the truth. We don’t want to know that they’re not going to jeopardize the advertising they get from pharmaceutical companies, their largest single advertiser on television, radio or magazine by telling the truth. So the truth’s not going to come out in the mainstream. It can’t. Then if it comes out anywhere else it will simply be denied by official sources. Well, if an official tells you something’s not true it must not be true because it was officially told. That’s how we get to where we’re at. For example, when they said it’s safe for pregnant. Yet if you were a pregnant woman in the study they did on the safety of the H1N1 vaccine, if you got a temperature at 102 degrees within 72 hours of getting the vaccine you were excluded from the study. So all the women who got themselves a reaction to the vaccine, a spike in their temperature, were taken out of the study. Well, what’s one of the side effects of a bad vaccine? A spike in your temperature. But what if you take everyone who got that out? Then you don’t have to say that it causes a problem. So anyone who got problems while in the vaccine study were removed. And then they wouldn’t allow any woman who had had chemotherapy or who drank, who had mental problems, who was on any anti- psychotic medication, who had any anti-inflammatory medication. Well, that’s half the women in America. So you’re excluding them but when you bring out the vaccine you’re going to allow those women to take the vaccine. That’s how bad science has become. Now, as a scientist and as a professor and as a PhD in Human Nutrition and Public Health Science, and as a journalist I can tell you that there is no media that I trust any longer in the United States to be objective and fair and honest and probing in what they do. Especially if what they do would in any way threaten a major industry or its profits. The reality is most people today are nothing more than an income stream. How do they do it? It’s simple. I mean, it’s really simple. They will take a normal behavior and they’ll suddenly vote that this is the symptom of a brain chemical imbalance. If you speak up to authority, if you speak up to your parents, well authority defiance disorder. But if you don’t speak up, shyness disorder. So if you speak up or don’t speak up, either way you’re trapped. If you like to keep a clean room, obsessive compulsive disorder. If you don’t like going out into a crowded noisy place, social anxiety disorder. So now they have so many disorders that every human being in America can fit nicely into being diagnosed. Once you’re diagnosed then you can be treated and that’s then a profit stream for the pharmaceutical industry. That’s how it works. So the medical paradigm is grossly flawed and broken. Science has been corrupted. The media compromised. The legislature - well, we all know what all the legislatures are at the state level and the federal level. They’re all compromised. So the issue is if you want to be happy and healthy in America today, you’d better get off the grid to get your information. For more interviews with the world’s top health and medical experts, go to Michael Senoff’s

Chris: Right. And you’ve been bringing these messages to people for a while now. Have you suffered personally repercussions from these big groups, from pharma, from other powerful interests?

Gary: Oh yeah. I’ve been fighting them my entire career. The difference is I just don’t take it personally. They’ll say things like, “Gary Null has a questionable PhD.” Well, what’s questionable about it? It’s from Union Institute and University. I got the highest honors in the history of the institute for outstanding achievement. It’s fully accredited. And some 60 heads of universities and colleges graduated from there with about 20,000 other people in its history. But they try to make it seem as if there’s something because they have nothing else they can get me on. They went into debates with me and I ate them alive. I’ve done over 500 debates and I’ve won all 500. So they don’t debate me anymore, whatever the issue is. Fluoride, AIDS, whatever the issue is they stay away. So they try to subterfuge and it doesn’t work. I’ve been around long enough, written enough books, done enough radio shows, television shows, 26 different specials, have appeared on PBS, over 600 articles, 93 books, 100 films, and 25,000 broadcasts. So at a certain point they know that they’re not going to be able to discredit me and I don’t distract myself to focus on them. I focus each day on providing people with positive solutions to the negative problems in life. Sometimes the positive solutions is to just be aware of what you’re doing that is leading you into the problem. If I told people just to stop eating meat of all types and fish, all dairy and wheat, no artificial sweeteners and processed sugars and no caffeine and soft drinks, just that alone would allow most people to be at least half again as healthy as they are now because it stops all the inflammatory agents. It stops all the stuff from going into their body. That is important. There’s nothing about it that’s difficult. Health is easy. Health is simply making the right choices. We have intuition. That is our spirit that allows us to make the right decisions. I can’t tell people to vaccinate or not. What I can do is this. I’ve done two major feature films. Vaccine Nation is one and Autism Made in the USA is the other. Now, that film has one or been official acceptance into 50 film festivals, more than any other documentary I’m aware of last year. In that film you see three things. A, you see the real horror of what it means to have a child with autism spectrum disorder. B, you see the cover up. Twenty-two minutes of the film uncover the truth that we’ve known for a long time that the vaccines are the primary contributing factor to autism spectrum disorder conditions. Then three, and this is really important, we show you kids who are completely normal now. I remember a year ago when I went to film the final get together. There were about 400 people who came to Chicago. I got all the children into this gigantic ballroom. I was filming them and each and every one was just so articulate. The last of the people was a 17 year old who was now going to college, who was completely normal. All these kids had been completely disabled with full blown autism and had not been able to function. Some hadn’t even talked in 10 years. But now they were all totally normal. When I put the camera on the kid, he looked at me and said, “My message is this. I’m so thankful that my parents never gave up on me. Through all those years when I was in that dark place they kept believing that there would be an answer.” Whoa, I looked around the room. I took my head away from the camera and I was looking. There wasn’t a dry eye in the place. And you realize that as a society we cannot afford to acknowledge that autism is due to all the vaccines and the ingredients in the vaccines. If we did then we would have to say to a million parents, “We got it wrong.” We’d have to say to all the school teachers and the hospitals, public health workers and the almost million doctors and nurses, “We gave you the wrong information.” We’d have to say that the FDA and the CDC and the American Academy of Pediatrics got it all wrong and knew they were getting it wrong, but they were pressured by political and economic interests by the pharmaceutical industry to get it right. Reputations would be affected. This would be one of the worst public health crises in world history. But instead of acknowledging with any humility that we got it wrong, instead we will say, “Double down. Give more vaccines.” And now they’ll try to have a vaccine for AIDS. They won’t, but they’ll get you more and more scheduled vaccines. You look at the people who are on these committees and the FDA and CDC who say, “Yes, this year we’re going to add this vaccine.” These are people with gross conflicts of interest more often than not. They’re financial whores. These are people who have been paid. Lectures, honorarium, all kinds of ways to get money but they’re there as a mouthpiece. Today in American it’s very easy to hire academic pedigrees. If you want the best academics, go to Harvard. You can buy any of them. Or Yale, or Princeton. The best and the brightest. Let’s see, is it the best and the brightest that have gotten us in this mess? Yeah. That’s the best and the brightest. And then we’re expecting the best and the brightest that got us in this mess to get us out. Yeah. It’s just like this wear a pink ribbon for breast cancer awareness. Since 1990 the instance of breast cancer has only been reduced by 1.7%. That’s nothing. Nothing. Look at the hundreds of billions of dollars that’s been spent and all the walks and marches and bike rides and jogs and events and dances. It’s all backed by AstraZeneca, the maker of Tomoxifin and the other chemotherapy agents. Get your mammograms. For every women who has benefitted from discovering a tumor because of a mammogram, 15 women will be misdiagnosed, over treated, abused because of it. Again, we don’t stop this madness. I’m asking what are the results of our war on cancer, our war on drugs, our war on poverty? My new film that I’m filming now is Poverty, Inc. Everywhere I go I’m finding previously employed people, college graduates, people who lived in homes and had backyards and barbecues. They’re now living in tents or they’re living on the street or they’re living with a neighbor. They never thought this would happen to them. I said, “When that tsunami came did you kind of stay in there at all or did you run for the hills?” The answer is they stood and watched because they never thought that the people in power would allow it to happen. Many of them are still living in this delusional state of, “They’ll fix it.” No, they won’t fix it. The people who caused the problem are not going to be the people who solved it. I figured we’ve got another five years of down and dirty until we finally throw out the Republicans and the Democrats and bring in the Independents who will not be aligned to an ideology and corporate America, but instead aligned to the truth and making decisions. We don’t need reform. The last thing we should do is reform anything. We should transform. Totally transform everything that doesn’t work. We can do that, but we can’t do it as long as your kid’s watching all these ads on television that tell him to eat the junk food. Then when you go to the supermarket they’re screaming for the junk food. Then when your kid becomes a diabetic with adult diabetes and is morbidly overweight and you take them and the doctor puts them on high blood pressure medication, cholesterol lowering medication and non- steroidal anti-inflammatory medication, your kid is eight years old and no one’s saying, “Change the lifestyle.”

Chris: It sounds like you are now taking on the whole issue of poverty in this country and looking at that.

Gary: I am.

Chris: People aren’t really talking about that, are they? The last media blurb was that it’s over.

Gary: Well, it’s over for the people who have nice places to live, plenty of food on their table and don’t have to worry about where their job is. But for everyone else, poverty is a very real issue. It’s getting worse, not better. Another six million homes are going to be foreclosed on. There’s been five million homes already foreclosed on. Four people in an average home. That’s 20 million Americans that have lost their home. Another 24 million Americans are going to lose their homes over the next three or four years. So you’re looking at about 45-50 million Americans made homeless, and all because of the wrong choices that we as a society made. Everything we’re doing is wrong. The first place person goes where they know they have some support. They’ll go to their families. They’ll go to their brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles and parents. But at a certain point that wears itself out and then a person goes into campers, recreational vehicles, vans, cars. I filmed a guy just a month ago down in Florida who took me to a hospital that he had built for $50 million. There was his picture when we went in there. And then a gym where they were playing basketball. Excuse me. It’s not a hospital but a college. We went out and sat on the curb and I was photographing the interview out on the curb. He’s homeless today. He had $100 million and he’s homeless. So I’m filming people from all different walks and backgrounds who are homeless. You don’t see a word about this anywhere. It’s as if it doesn’t exist.