Michael: Tell me about maybe a couple of star students who are using your system, and where are they seeing some success. What’s going on with them?

David: Oh, sure, I’ve got actually several of them, and several of them have already started on the speakers’ circuit, along with me just because of their result. I got a video testimonial in yesterday from Maria Gadalez, and she’s one of my top students. She generated six figures in her five weeks with me, and all of that was through those joint venture big workshops. She sent a video testimonial yesterday from France, and she just sent it just to send it. She said, “Hey, David, I just wanted to touch base with you. I am now currently in the south of France, and this is my lifestyle now. I owe 100% of this to you. You can use this anywhere that you want.”

Michael: That’s incredible. Music

David: Hello, this is David.

Michael: Hi, David, Michael Senoff.

David: Hey, great, how are you?

Michael: I’m good. How is everything going?

David: Great. Somebody needs to be great. It might as well be us.

Michael: I told you I’ve been marketing a How to be a Marketing Consultant course. I’m not the expert, but there’s a guy named Richard, since 1990 who has been putting people through trainings, and he had a lot of intellectual property put together. He wasn’t real interested. I made an agreement with him, and since 2004, we’ve been selling these HMA marketing consulting training systems all over the world. There is a component to it which is a group workshop component, which is how Richard’s operated his consulting practice real successfully. He’s hooked up with some of these MEPs, these manufacturing extension partnerships. They’re sponsored by the state. It’s just like you say in your book and stuff. When you’re positioned especially with the state or government entity, referring clients to you, it just makes all the difference in the world, and then what you’ve done with the internet, because there’s so many people clueless about the internet, it’s almost like picking low hanging fruit from the tree because no one is doing the internet stuff right, and they’re clueless. I’m thinking it’s a wonderful way for my consultants to get in the door to build up a little bit of a relationship and make some money at the same time. I wanted to do an interview for my existing HMA consultants because I want to give them a lot of value and give them confidence that, yes, this can be done.

David: Sure, and then there’s also something that I’ve just put together. I haven’t really shared with anybody yet, and this is just phenomenal. I cut a deal with the largest accounting firm in New York City, and all I did was basically contact them and say, “Hey, you’ve got a major unused asset that can make you hundreds of thousands of dollars. If I put it in place for you and do all the work, would you give me part of it?” So, out of twelve offices, they’re tapping thousands in their database of business owners, some of them have been with them eighteen or nineteen years, and they’re going to pack them into a workshop a hundred at a time, Friday, Saturday and Sunday in the end of May.

Michael: In New York?

David: Yes, $497 a head, and I’m going to split with them 50/50 after expenses upfront, and then the backend is mine.

Michael: See, that’s beautiful, and that’s what you were doing with the SBA.

David: Just on a much larger scale.

Michael: Right, well, you’ve got that confidence to do larger groups now, which is great, but it takes time for a new guy coming in it’s going to be pretty fearful for hi, but there are people who love doing it and can do it, but that’s great. You used joint venture. You used the endorsement of the number one accounting firm. Did you write the promotion that went out to their list, or have they sent out the invitation?

David: We’ve started that. Registrations are already flying in. They’re registering through my website at $497 a pop through PayPal. I wrote the direct mail copy, and the email.

Michael: Did they email it out to their list or direct mail?

David: They direct mailed for the most part because that’s the way they normally communicate with them, so that was the best.

Michael: Was it the internet marketing angle?

David: How to harness the true power of the internet for your business.

Michael: So, you’ve been doing this a long time. So, tell me or my consultants, what has it meant for your life to go the internet route showing businesses how to harness the internet compared to businesses showing them how to grow their brick and mortar business where you’re not talking about the internet? Does it make it easier?

David: It does make it much easier. They can communicate on that level because – I mean, they’re entrepreneurs just like we are. So, we’re kind of a kindred spirit in a way. Both of us are business owners, but speaking to them about the internet is almost like a foreign animal. They’re very misled about a lot of things to do with the internet, SEO in particular. SEO is terrible for most business owners that don’t understand it at all, and I tell them it’s purposively kept that way. It’s kind of kept that way so of course everybody can wring a lot more money out of you. It’s really just needlessly spent. It makes it much easier to talk to them about the internet, and to let them know what can be done as far as starting to build a list or lead capture mechanism or that type of thing, and they can relate to that especially when you can look at them and say, “Look, if I can cut your advertising budget by as much as 70% and increase your profit simultaneously, would you want to know how to do that?”

Michael: Do you think they’re more open to that internet because when you show them how to grow their business – and we’re not talking internet – they’ve been in that business five, ten, fifteen, twenty, fifty years, and they’ve tried everything and they know it all. Do you think that know it all gets in the way from a consultant getting them as a client?

David: It does to a degree, and I tell them that right up front. Obviously, you have much more experience at running this particular business than I do because I just stepped in the door, so I’m not going to butt heads with you on that issue. You’re a clear winner there. However, if I can show you some things in marketing that you could change and implement very easily that would make a major difference in your profit and loss, we might have some common ground there.

Michael: Let’s talk about your story. Can we start from the beginning? How did you get into all of this? I know you had some financial struggles and you kind of, I guess, reluctantly fell into consulting. So, the consultants can relate to your story, take me back to the beginning. How did this all start?

David: I actually worked for a billion dollar retailer for years and years, and worked my way up in the company. I got all the way up to Regional Vice President, was doing really well.

Michael: Can you say who it is?

David: Yes, it was Heimlich Meyers. It was a furniture retailer, and actually did really well with them, worked my way up. In the space of three months, they closed 832 stores, and just went completely belly-up. So, I went from hero to zero very quickly.

Michael: Were you in sales?

David: I was actually in charge of credit for several states over a certain amount. So, I was on salary, but about $40,000 of that per year was bonuses. My places had to make their targets in order for me to get my bonus, which of course was a big size part of my income as well. I had done really well with that, and they just went completely out of business, too much bad debt and it finally caught up with them. So, I sent out tons and tons of resumes everywhere, and I got a lot of offers, but they were all companies that were willing to give me about half of what I was making with about the same responsibility.

Michael: Did you have a family at that time?

David: Yes, I did. I had a heavy mortgage, and of course the car payments and kids coming into drivers licenses, a lot of pressure, and our 401 was tied up in the legal system. It was just a real mess. I had some investments put back, but it was stuff you couldn’t get to immediately. It was really kind of sad because we were in a big nice house with nice things and nice cars, and we were literally starving to death wondering how we were going to get food from the grocery store the next day.

Michael: Where were you, what state?

David: We were in Charleston, SC.

Michael: Are you from there?

David: Originally, I’m from Ohio, and then they had actually transferred me there, and then three months later went out of business.

Michael: So, where did the consulting idea come from?

David: That actually came to me – I kept thinking over and over, and I was looking at the answers to the resumes, and I said, “I’m not working seventy hours again, and pretty much starting over with another company for 50-60-70 grand a year. That’s crazy. I understand business, and I know how business works. So, I think I’m just going to start my own consulting firm and see how that goes.” Everybody in my entire family was completely against that idea except for my wife. She had enough belief, fortunately, in me to know that she trusted me. She said, “I know we’re really hand to mouth right now. We’re having a really tough time, but I know that you know what you’re doing.” So, I actually went into the Small Business Administration, and offered to teach a free workshop. So, they could put it out there and bring business owners in, and the first one I did was not about the internet. It was about eleven or twelve years ago, and the first one I did was immediate things they could change that would impact their profit and loss statement.

Michael: What gave you an idea to go to SBA? Did you find any other consultants to model? Had you study anyone else? How did you even know to go to the SBA?

David: What I actually did was I went to the SBA for some help to begin with, and they had a resource center that I had heard about that had a lot of resources in there for business owners and business people wanting to start their own business. So, I went to the resource center, and there was a huge library there about that. I went through some of the things, and then it hit me actually while I was in there, and I said, “I can teach a consulting course or some type of course, and then monetize the back end of it.” It actually did hit me while I was in there. So, I went and talked to the manager there and said I’d be willing to teach a free course on the impact to your profit and loss statements.

Michael: Stop right there. Now, let’s say a consultant is listening to it. They want to go down to their local SBA, and they want to approach a manager. Knowing what you know now, and they’re trying to make things go smoother where if you can negotiate something with the manager, where if you can provide a charitable donation to the SBA, tell my consultants how they should do this and what you wish you knew when you first started that you know now.

David: In the beginning, that was actually a tough sell, and I never ever mentioned anything about a donation to them at all upfront. It did come to me later, and it was kind of a quiet deal that worked out really well. I actually just went in there and offered to teach a free workshop and you can do this. A lot of times, the SBA are scheduled now to where it takes them sometimes six to eight weeks in order for them to schedule you because they’re so booked up.

Michael: All across the country that you’ve seen?

David: Just about everywhere. I’ve got students that do that, and they’ll start out and talk with them. The key factor for me was being able to teach a free workshop so that the government basically brands you as the expert locally.

Michael: So, you want to get in and do a free workshop with them because you want that implied endorsement.

David: Correct.

Michael: That’s what a consultant is really after, right?

David: Absolutely, it’s worth millions.

Michael: Why is that worth millions?

David: I can talk to a business owner anywhere, even if we’re just out referrals because the referrals have not been to one of my workshops. They don’t know, but I can give them a business card, and right on the very top of my card in big letters, it says, “Ask me about free workshops hosted by the SBA.” That’s huge.

Michael: That instantly positions you as an expert.

David: It just instantly kills any competitor that comes through the door. Nobody else gets inside there. You’re listening to an exclusive interview found on Michael Senoff’s HardToFindSeminars.com.

Michael: But, when you were doing that, you were actually hosting those workshops.

David: Yes.

Michael: Okay, so what about a consultant who maybe it’s going to take six to eight months to get in with the SBA, what other kinds of workshop can they do that’ll give them that type of credibility, or maybe something close to it if it’s not a government?

David: The easiest ones to set up even with coaching students and high dollar students, the easiest way to get in and start a steady stream of literally clients that will just chase you down to pay you is with non-profit organizations.

Michael: Give me an example of you or a student who did this.

David: I actually have several students that believe it or not have gone through small private schools like parochial schools or small catholic schools, and what they do is they set up a deal with the principal, and this is the entire pitch. It’s very simple. You introduce yourself as a new fund-raising vehicle, and here’s what we can do. I will teach a one day workshop to small business owners on how to harness the true power of the internet for their business. You can sell that to your customer base here, your children can also do it instead of the candles or candy or whatever.

Michael: How much does it sell for?

David: We lower the price for the school. It’s only $97 a head. So, a lot of business owners will sign up for that immediately because of course they know it benefits the school, and you can use their auditorium. So, there’s absolutely no out of pocket to anybody.

Michael: How long does the seminar last?

David: Six to seven hours depending on the Q&A.

Michael: Wow, so you approach the principal. Are they receptive to this stuff?

David: The first one I ever approached actually gave me the name and number for six other schools that needed that kind of help.

Michael: They needed fundraising help.

David: Absolutely.

Michael: You showed them how this could bring in more money than their candy drives.

David: Yes, because normally, they’re really getting hurt. They’re getting about 20-25% of the gross sales of every other type of fundraiser. The representative in the company makes all the money. With this system, I can sit down with them and print out even from PayPal a CSV file that shows them the exact amount of transactions I had to pay and exact amount of net money. Then, I can write them a check at the end of that for 50% of the net amount. I make it out to them as a charitable contribution. So, I can write it 100% off my taxes. They can keep their non-profit status. The first one that I ever did was $5,300 upfront. So they sold 53 seats.

Michael: How did they sell the seats? What was the method of them getting the word out?

David: Well, the neat thing about the private schools and the higher end private schools is most of the people that put their children in there own businesses or they couldn’t afford that. So, a lot of the parents signed up. A lot of them as couples signed up, and then the principal actually took a van load of kids out to Main St, and they just bombed the town. A lot of the people signed right up from there.

Michael: So, was it a flier that was distributed? What was the marketing method, the vehicle that got the word out?

David: It was basically just a flier, a one page flier that the children would go in and talk to them and say, “We’re doing a major fundraiser for our school, and wanted to know if your business would like to help us.” That was the entire pitch.

Michael: It was for the internet.

David: Yes.

Michael: What was the call to action on the flier?

David: The call to action on the flier was actually, “Now, you can learn how to drive more traffic through your front door using the power of the internet, and you can help the school at the same time.”

Michael: Okay, and then they go to your website that you control?

David: Yes.

Michael: Then, it has the letter and everything.

David: It has the letter and everything. It has the picture and an endorsement from the principal.

Michael: That’s good, and then you handle all the payments and get the workshops scheduled. You go in and you do it.

David: That’s it, and there’s no cost because it’s in their auditorium. Of course, they have their own audio systems and everything.

Michael: What do you need as a consultant to put on the workshop? What do you need to prepare for? Let’s say everyone is right there. What do you have to prepare to do and to pass out to make it successful?

David: The only thing I ever give them during a workshop is a pen and a pad because I don’t want to give them any information that’s step by step believe it or not so they can take back and implement. I want them to write down what they feel is important.

Michael: Tell me why you do that. Could that be a mistake for a consultant to hand them a step by step thing that they’re teaching at a seminar or that they’re maybe going to be taking them through opportunity analysis like we train them to do?

David: To me, I think that’s a mistake, and the reason is because they can give that to somebody else like their programmer or whoever build their original tech site, but it’s not a direct response. So, it’s really not doing them any good that they can give that information to them, and they know enough to be able to implement that. If they’re taking notes, and they try to call that person and explain to them what they learned in there, it just completely gets lost in the translation.

Michael: That’s great advice. You want them to call you, obviously.

David: Absolutely.

Michael: That’s great advice. Pen and a pad of paper, and are you presenting with a computer, a screen or what?

David: Yes, I do present with a laptop and a screen. I hook it up to a projector, and a lot of times, we will go through some of the websites of the business owners themselves, and that works really well. I can put their site on there, and I’ll say, “Let’s talk for a minute about keywords,” and of course, you’re going to right click on it and view the source, and there’s their keywords. To give you an example, there was one on there called Bay City Grill, and he wondered why he wasn’t getting any traffic from that. We looked at it, and it was because the only keywords he had in there were Bay City Grill, but it was “Bay” comma “city” comma “Grill” comma. I said, “Well, there’s your problem.”

Michael: So, the consultants are going to be teaching a little bit about the internet and about SEO, and some of the consultants listening to this really don’t have that much knowledge about it. With your training and your course on how to do that, is it going to be easy for them to get up to par to feel confident enough to give a presentation like this on SEO and on the internet?

David: That’s a good question, and it’s actually very simple to do. I don’t get really in depth to it, and I just kind of cover the surface of it and let them know basic things. I don’t ever get really in depth in it because that can be an entire workshop in and of itself. So, I just cover the basics of it, and the one thing that they have to remember is something said something to me at a seminar, and I forget who it was, but he said, “To every third grader, a fourth grader is god.”

Michael: What does that mean?

David: That if you’re one step ahead of everybody in that audience, you’re the king, and these people are very, very intelligent. Small business owners are very intelligent people, but they’re just for the most part totally ignorant about the internet and/or marketing.

Michael: That workshop is six or seven hours. What are some of the things you’re going through? What are we talking about for six or seven hours?

David: The first thing that I try to get through to them right off the bat is the importance of list-building.

Michael: Do you use that quiz that I read about?

David: Yes.

Michael: You’ve got to tell these consultants about that quiz because that thing’s beautiful, and the way you set that up.

David: I actually set it up right off the bat. That paper is on their desk when they come in, or their seat. Then, I say, “Hey, I bet you didn’t know you were going to have a pop quiz today.” Everybody is like, “Ah!” I say, “Believe me, this will help me help you.”

Michael: What’s the purpose of that quiz in your mind, for you, to position you?

David: That actually lets them know how much they do not know.

Michael: How many questions is it?

David: It’s only about ten questions, sometimes twelve at the most.

Michael: Give just a couple examples because it is beautiful the way it was set up. I really liked it.

David: One of them is, do you have a static website or a direct response website? Most people look at you like a deer in the headlights. They’re like, “What?” What current advertising methods are you using? How are you tracking your advertising dollars?

Michael: It’s like multiple choice, right?

David: Yes.

Michael: One of the answer is, “None of the above.”

David: Just about all of them are, “None of the above.”

Michael: After they take that quiz, do you have them pass them all to the front?

David: I actually have them pass them back and forth, and I say, “We’ll grade these.” Then, we go through a little scenario where I go through the quiz with them, and I don’t get indepth with anything, but just tell them, “If you’re not tracking your advertising like for example, if you hit none of the above, how do you know what’s working? If you don’t know what’s working, how do you know what’s not working? We’re going to cover that today. That’s why this is important because this tells me what you know about marketing about your particular business.”

Michael: Do you have this whole seminar laid out? I know you’ve got a couple of packages that we’ll talk about later, but do you have this thing laid out where if my consultant orders this and they want to know what you know through your package, you’ve got this thing step by step laid out every step on how to put this thing on without them having to know anything more.

David: Absolutely. It has the marketing materials. It has like a non-profit org pack, the NPO pack, working with those folks. B2B joint venture is in there, how to pack a room with no marketing. Then, the neat thing that everybody likes about it that I’ve gotten the most feedback on is the actual slide presentation that I personally use.

Michael: When do you break out that slide presentation, at what point in the workshop?

David: Immediately after the quiz.

Michael: Okay, so you’ve got a PowerPoint slide presentation?

David: Yes.

Michael: Tell me, what’s unique about that? How is my consultants going to benefit from that?

David: It actually makes it very simple because it doesn’t need to be all flashy and showy and everything else. It just needs to get the point across, and that slide presentation does extremely good job of that. They can look at the screen if they get lost or they can’t find their notes, and it’s very simple to follow. It’s very basic stuff. I don’t get into a really drill down type workshop with these folks because they’re not ready for that.

Michael: Keep it simple.

David: Keep it simple, and the reason that this slide presentation is set up this way – well, really, the entire system is because you have to make them know that, “Hey, I understand that now, and I can do that. That’s not hard.” You want them to understand that that can be done, and they can do it themselves. So, you want them to really honestly understand how they can make changes and do it their selves. The difference is about a third of the way through the workshop, they start laying the pins down, and they just absolutely don’t have time. So, they know they can do it, and now they know how it works. So, they know it’s real, but their only deal is their timeframe. I don’t’ have time to learn all of this stuff, and I’m not going to. So, I wonder how much Michael would charge me.

Michael: So, that’s what we’re trying to set up is them going to approach you.

David: Yes.

Michael: So, you’ve gone through the workshop. Tell me the set up when you come to the end where you want them flooding to you. How do you organize that? Tell me what happens at the end of the seminar and how do you handle all these people that want your help. What’s the system?

David: What I do is – and, I always tell students this all the time, and future consultants – is during a workshop, if you do it correctly, you’re there honestly to teach them. That is the key. There is no pitching allowed, ever. So, you teach them the whole time you’re in there, very basic stuff that they could do themselves. At the end of it, I tell them, “Look, if you’re waiting for the other shoe to drop, and get a ten or twenty thousand dollar slap in the face with a product, you can relax. That’s not going to happen. You’re here to learn. I’m here to teach. Let’s get to it.”

Michael: Do you say that at the beginning?

David: I say that at the very beginning, and then at the very end, this is the same thing that I tell them every single time, and it works flawlessly. I tell them, “Look, that’s pretty much it. That’s the entire workshop. I hope you got something from this today.” I usually get a lot of applause, and a lot of people, “Yes! Yes this was great.” Then, I’ll say, “Okay, here’s the deal. When you leave here today, don’t sit on this information. You already know in your own mind and your heart that if you go back and implement what you learned here today, this is going to make an immediate impact on your profit and loss, right?” Everybody goes, “Yep,” and I say, “Don’t sit on this. Everyday that you wait to start implementing this is going to cost your business thousands. So, get back to your business, get with who you need to, start implementing these very simple steps, turn your business around, and I wish you all the luck in the world. Now, if you get stuck, I’ve got a box of business cards back there on the back table. Take one of those on your way out, and if you get stuck and you need some help, give me a call. I’ll try to fit you in. I’ll try to help you as much as I can. Have a great day.”

Michael: Okay, everyone grabs for the business cards.

David: And, within the next day or two, I’ve got a toll-free 800-number on there that I call a trap system, and it’s basically, I can put any voicemail message on there that I want. It automatically traps all of their information whether they’ve got caller ID or not, it doesn’t matter. So, whenever they call in, it just basically tells them I’m out in the field with another client. If they’d like to leave a message, if they need to speak to me immediately and this is an emergency and they’re a current client, press one. That’s all, of course, psychological.

Michael: Of course, press one – they’re not current clients. They’re not going to press one.

David: But, they automatically know that if they were a current client, they could get me very quickly. I tell them it’s a follow me number, so if they leave a message, no matter where I’m at, it’ll track me down. I said, “If you’re a current client, of course, you know that, you can press one, if this is an emergency, and I will be on the phone with you in seconds.” So, that works really well.

Michael: Your 800-system is pulling addresses through caller ID?

David: Yes.

Michael: So, the calls are coming in. You’re not really talking to anyone. You’re capturing data. What’s the next step to get them as a client?

David: Really, to be honest with you, I thought that I would have to follow up with them an start hammering them with different things, and even send them a direct mail piece. I had thought about doing that, but what can happen from the very beginning with this system is straight across the board, students of mine that are doing this and me, it’s between 30 and 35% of everybody in that room becomes a client within a week to ten days.

Michael: You ignore them and they call you back?

David: They always call back. They say, “Hey, I was in the workshop, and I’m stuck. You said to call you.” I say, “Okay.” So, I’ll listen to the ones that are on there. I’ll call them back and I’ll say, “Hey, Terry, what are you stuck on? I’ll be over in that area on Wednesday afternoon. Would it be okay if I just stopped in and I’ll see if I can help you?” The difference between this and any other type of client acquisition method is just enormous. You come in their front door Wednesday afternoon, and they’re ecstatic to see you.

Michael: Because you’re coming to help them out.

David: Absolutely.

Michael: They don’t know you’re going to charge them anything or whatever.

David: And, I do this the same exact way. I think this is really important. To me, it’s been a major, major factor in my success is I come across in their place of business the same way that I do in the workshop. As an example, they would say, “I’ve got a website.” I say, “Yeah, I see that, and it’s pretty and flashy, but it’s static, right?” He goes, “Yeah, it’s not a direct response site. You made that clear.” I said, “What are you trying to do?” He says, “I’m trying to get a lead capture thing on there that you were talking about.” I say, “Oh, without rearranging the entire page.” He goes, “Right.” I said, “You can put a light box on there. You can put a slider. It’s not a big deal.” He goes, “Yeah, but how do you do that?” I say, “If you’ve got a couple of hours, I can sit down with you and show you how to build your own custom autoresponder, how to set up your list, and how to open a database and set up a database and set up your email.” You never get that far. They instantly stop you and go, “Yeah, yeah. You can do that though.” I say, “Yeah, I can do that.” They say, “Well, how much?”

Michael: So, you’re saying if you’ve got a couple of hours, we’ll sit down and I’ll show you how to do all that. They go, “No, no, I don’t want to know how to do it. Can you do that?” You say, “Yeah, I can do that,” and then they say, “How much?” Then, what do you do?

David: I say, “Well, there’s actually a couple of different options you’ve got. If you’ve got somebody who can write the emails for you, then you don’t have to pay a copywriter to do that. I wouldn’t recommend that unless they’re good because that’s your money, but I can set the autoresponder up on your page, and if you want me to manage the database and the list, it’s $150 a month subscription. Then, it’s totally hands free for you.” They’re like, “That’s it.” I say, “Yeah.” They say, “Well, how much to set up the autoresponder thing?” I say, “It’s normally $500. If you want me to do it for you, I’ll do it for about $250. So, if you just want to pay me $400 today, I can just do it all for you. You’ll have to find somebody to write your emails, or I can outsource that for you. I’ve got guys that do that.” “Well, how much are they?” I say, “Well, they say those in quarterly packages, and here’s why. They’re not doing to do them single or one at a time or a week at a time because you advertise with a quarterly budget, right?” They go, “Well, yes.” I say, “Fit it into your budget. That’s the best way. You’ll forget it if you just order one or two emails from them, and you’re going to do it again next week. I already know how busy you are. Then, you burned your entire list you built because you forgot about it for two months.” “Yeah, you’re right. You’re right. So, how much?” So, you literally have to get them to the point to where they’re asking you to pay you.

Michael: Now, are you going to take the money there and work with them right there? These services, do you have any of the stuff broken down on paper that you could leave with them or show them? Do you know what I’m saying?

David: No.

Michael: So, you’ve got it all memorized. You know what your packages are. You know how much you charge, and that’s all in your head.

David: Then, the consultants or the students that I teach, of course, they get a price list of what I call suggested retail, but then, I just tell them basically that’s what I charge. If you want to charge something different, that’s totally up to you because it’s your business.

Michael: Okay, so, with an example like that, they want to buy, and they say, “Okay, let’s do it. What do you from there?”

David: From there, I’ll just write down on a little pad and say, “This is what you want to do right now, correctly,” and they go, “Right.” So, I go, “Okay, if you want to do that, it’s going to be this much.” They say, “Yep, and who do I make that out to.” So, I tell them, “Just make it out to the company.” They put that on there, and I say, “It’ll take a couple of days, but I’ll get back to you within 48-72 hours, and we’ll be rolling.” They don’t realize that it takes ten minutes to set up an autoresponder form.

Michael: The autoresponder is going to be under your name. You’re going to control their leads.

David: Absolutely.

Michael: Beautiful. Tell me why that’s important for the consultants. If they’re going to set up an autoresponder for a client to control and own the autoresponder account and to control those leads, why is that important for a consultant to do that rather than set it up in their name?

David: Because the business owner realizes that it was actually their choice. I offer to let them set p their own autoresponder service and show them how to do it, and list management, database management, I offered that to them. They don’t want to fool with that. They were like, “I don’t want to fool with that. You do it.”

Michael: They’re paying $150 a month for that.

David: Correct, and of course, the work that I put into that every month is zero.

Michael: Yes, because you’re farming it out, but even if you did it yourself, it’s nothing.

David: All of that is taken care of by the autoresponder system itself. I’ll charge them $100 for email broadcast that they want to do, if they’ve got an upcoming sale. Once they get a decent list of 1,000 customers, buying customers, then I’ll just tell them point blank, “If you’re going to advertise at a $3,000 full page newspaper ad, don’t do it. You’ve just got to trust me on this. If you let me send an autoresponder broadcast to your current buyers about this sale, the ROI on this is 100 times more than spending three grand in the newspaper, and I’ll prove it to you.”

Michael: What are you trying to sell them?

David: All I do is I can write the email copy and attach a coupon to it, and send it to their list, and then tell them to print this coupon out and bring it in to redeem. Then, I explain it to the people that if you’re doing media broadcasting advertising, number one, you’re not tracking it. So, you don’t know if it’s working or not. It’s a shot gun approach. There’s people out there that are not anywhere near your demographic, so they could care less that you’re having a sale. This is a list of people that have already bought from you before. So, if you don’t spend the three grand on the newspaper ad, and you only pay $100 to do a broadcast email, the return on investment, there’s no comparison.

Michael: You’re selling them, let me do a broadcast email for you for $100.

David: Yes.

Michael: What about the actual copy for the email? Do they pay for that?

David: That’s what they’re paying for.

Michael: So, you close them. They say, “Who do I write the check out to?” They make it out to you, and then you don’t have to be at their place. You don’t need to talk to their webmaster to get into their C Panel, or into their – well, you do need to get into their website to put the form up. Can that be sometimes challenging? How do you handle that? You go home. You’ve got them as a client. You’ve got their money. Now, how do you take it from there to execute the form up on their site?

David: A lot of times, I’ll tell them, “I need to get access to your website,” or in many instances, the name for their website is not very SEO friendly, and it’s usually stupid. I’ll look at it. Some of them have bright ideas that are not so bright. So, a lot of times I’ll tell them point blank, “You need a long tail domain keyword for your domain. You need something that the search engines can find easily.”

Michael: So, you’re going to sell them a URL.

David: I’ll sell them a new URL, and I just take their current information and swap it over to that. A lot of times, I tell them, if they’re going to talk to their programmer and allow me access to that, programmers get really defensive over that sometimes, that they’re bringing this guy in. I thought this guy was my client, and that type of thing. I just say, “You need to tell them and explain to them point blank that you’re the boss. That’s your domain, but other than that you have to tell them that this guy is not a programmer. He’s not a competitor. He’s a marketer. So, he can care less what you’re doing. He’s just going to help me market this business better.” That usually works.

Michael: So, you’re upselling more. You’ve got more things to sell that client.

David: Absolutely.

Michael: Is there a mother of all offer, a high end package where they get all of this for one nice price?

David: Yes, there’s actually several different packages, and most of them do pick the top offer which is $5,000. That’s a totally custom website from a marketer’s point of view about their business. So, it’s totally custom graphics, total custom ad copy. Everything is for them, and it includes the lead capture mechanisms. It includes one year of 26 bi-weekly newsletters. It includes SEO, long term keyword research, and we’ve also got our own software that we write articles, press releases. We do audio podcasts and videos for that business, and submit it to this dashboard, and it goes out to thousands and thousands of sites.

Michael: So, you have this package all designed like in a sales letter to present to them before they drop their five grand.

David: Yes.

Michael: And, the people who order your package can use that?

David: Sure, it’s very simple to do, and that was why I had to figure out the outsourcing was because I knew that if I did all of that work myself that at best, if I was working eight to ten hours a day, that I could do two, maybe three, clients a week.

Michael: Yeah, so, let’s talk about that. The consultants probably don’t know how to do all this, and they don’t want to get bogged down. So, the integral part of your system is the outsourcing, the execution. You’re saying there are a lot of people who could execute this stuff without a hitch and easily?

David: Yes, because you really don’t have to know how to do any of it. In the package, there’s actually my Rolodex of outsourcing partners I use. You can set your own up. There’s also step by step instructions on how to start setting up your own outsourcing network, or you can outsource it through the same people that I use in there. Basically, it costs $1750 for you to outsource a $5,000 package, and you’re keeping a little over three grand in your pocket, and you’re not doing any of the work.

Michael: So, do you turnover your outsourcing team to the client, and they take them from there.

David: The outsourcing team never, ever talks to the client. They are completely behind the scenes, and the reason for that is the client knows me, not them. It’s the same way for the consultants that order the packages or the outsourcing. They will work with that consultant, but they will never ever directly contact the client.

Michael: Does the client believe you’re actually doing all this stuff physically, and does it ever come up? Is that ever a concern?

David: That’s the assumption.

Michael: So, you can keep everything organized when a client says, “Hey, they’ve got a question about something.” You’re able to keep everything organized and make it look as if you’re doing everything?

David: Yes.

Michael: This is fantastic. You’re sharing some very valuable, step by step things that my HMA consultants should be drooling over by now. Let’s go back to your story. You were in that SBA office. You set up an offer to free workshop. You did the workshop. Nine years ago, this workshop, this is basically what you’re still teaching today?

David: Yes, today is more or less the internet, to kind of harness the power of the internet for your business. They really, really need that help. That’s the key is pretty soon if you get it done right, and the government agency picks up on it, fortunately for me, they really love the presentation and they get a lot of feedback from the people who attended it. They said, “Yes, it was really great. It really helped me.” They never picked up on the fact that I was picking up clients left and right off the back of that until later on, and of course, it was too late by then because the demand for me to teach those workshops in different areas was huge. So, they actually put it into their budget, and I got to see my smiling face on public service announcements and on the radio and it just blew me away. They were out there, “Hey David Presta will be teaching a small business workshop. This is free to all small business owners, in the Charleston area, and blah, blah, blah.” You’re like, “Wow, that’s me.”

Michael: You’re a superstar instantly. So, today, it may be a little more difficult. I know the SBA here in San Diego, they’re offering all kinds of workshops. They probably already have joint ventures with the people putting on these workshops from attorneys to probably marketing to everything you can think of, and you did give me another avenue to put on a workshop that gives you a lot of credibility, and that’s through private schools. If the SBAs are kind of filled up, and it’s going to be hard for the consultants to get stuff set up with them, what are some other avenues that my consultants can put on these workshops?

David: Non-profit organizations, hands down, are the fastest movers on this kind of a deal, on the kind of JV. The reason is they all need the funds, and as a fund raiser and a new vehicle like that, it’s just a phenomenal workshop for them. You can use Rotary clubs. I’ve taught the Knights of Columbus, the Rotary clubs, the Lions Club, even St Jude’s Hospital. So, any charitable organization or non-profit organization is a great target.

Michael: And, it works the same way. You’re going to split the workshop. They’re going to promote it to their membership list, and you’re going to put it on most likely in their area, and you’re just going to follow the system.

David: Yes, and then they get half of the upfront money collected, and I download that into a CSV. So, there’s absolutely no question. They can see it all in black and white right there. They get a copy of that, and then I cut them a check for 50% right immediately after the workshop.

Michael: So, after your SBA ones, you were busy for years and years just with the SBA. Tell me what happened at the peak of your consulting and workshop career.

David: With doing that and teaching smaller number workshops like a dozen folks or fifteen, twenty folks at the most, they kept me just absolutely pumping for a long time. What happened was the small business development centers started contacting each other and saying, “Man, you’ve got to get this guy come and do this. This is awesome.” At one point, I actually taught 23 workshops in one month just for them. I was just dragging my tracks out by the time it was over.

Michael: Did you have some support to run that many people? Is your wife helping you or anything?

David: Absolutely. She took care of all the admin for me, and the scheduling and the booking and that type thing.

Michael: You’ve got to tell me. What kind of money were you making? I’ve interviewed some pretty big time consultants making millions of dollars a year, but a lot of my consultants maybe just don’t have the belief that there’s that much money in this business. Can you give us an idea? You don’t have to tell me specifically, but when you were really rocking and rolling, what kind of money were you bringing in?

David: On the smaller scale, and to me that’s the smaller scale now, to me it was a huge scale back then, but the smaller workshops like that at that point was six figures a month, easily, and probably between $160-$190 a month.

Michael: A hundred sixty, a hundred ninety thousand a month?

David: Yes.

Michael: Wow, was that gross or after you paid off the fulfillment?

David: That was afterwards.

Michael: That was net, right?

David: That was net.

Michael: Wow, that’s incredible.

David: I’ve taken that to the next level where I’ve got huge JV partners that we do NDA agreements with and joint venture agreements between us, and like the accounting firm being the number crunchers they are, they were all excited that they sent it back to me 50% of the room on that is $35,000 today for me. So, that’s $105,000 for a three day weekend on the front end. That doesn’t even scratch the back end.

Michael: So, here’s an initial concern. I promote you to my consultants. They love it. They’re able to fill the room. They don’t have the knowledge of how to execute, and they farm out to you. How can I be sure my consultants or anyone who comes to you be sure who is doing the execution of this? Is that something that my consultants have to set up on their own, or do you offer all that?

David: They can set it up on their own, and there’s very clear instructions on how they can do that using several different systems that we’ve used, but we also have now we have two full-time coordinators that do nothing but coordinate all of the outsourcing. We outsource a lot through the Philippines believe it or not. They do extremely good work, and they’re very inexpensive. That job is really important to those folks.

Michael: Realistically, when you’re designing someone a website, there’s got to be between the client and the designer – there’s always back and forth, but here the phone number has got to go here, and if they believe you’re doing all the work, how do you handle all those details of a newly designed website with all these different clients? They believe you’re actually doing it all.

David: The fun part about that is all of that is coordinated through the main office, the two folks that take care of all that for me, and they’ve got enough experience over the years with me to where they can look at a site and they’ll say, “That’s not exactly what I was looking for.” It never ever makes it to me. I wind up getting the finished product, and it’s always either very close to what I had in mind, or it’s right on target.

Michael: Then, you deliver that to the client.

David: Yes, it’s already installed and everything. Then, I always make sure that I go in there, and they’re always happy to see me. I pull up their new site, and say, “There you go.”

Michael: So, the joint venture you set up with this large accounting firm, would you tell my consultants this is the way to go, joint ventures, workshops, split the money with the host of the workshop, and then if you choose, you don’t even have to, set up back end services and outsource. That’s the model, right?

David: Absolutely. The workshops are really, really important because there was a huge internet market, actually Willie Crawford used it for the first time and was so excited, he called me on the phone and he never ever does that.

Michael: I heard the interview you did with him. So, tell me that story. What did he do?

David: He actually called me on the phone and said, “The way this is set up, the workshops are just a brilliant idea. Packing them in and having them do the marketing for you, you’re not really doing anything except showing up and branding yourself for the entire day. Then, after that’s over, your phone just rings off the hook because they already know they can trust you because you didn’t try to sell them anything. You really were trying to show them what to do. So, they already know they can trust you. They know you’re not going to pitch them as soon as you call them on the phone. You actually position yourself as the go to person when it comes to marketing. So, you actually have an opportunity for those guys to call you about any marketing question, which of course, is another service you can always offer them.” I’ve had somebody call me before and say, “Hey, I’ve got a postcard in the mail about SEO services, and if you think this is a good deal.” I said, “Well, fax it to me.” I looked at, called him back and said, “Carl, don’t’ do this, man. This is a blatant rip-off. They’re not even saying what they’re going to do for you.”

Michael: So, the way to fill your seats with lightening speed is through the endorsement of the host of the workshop, them endorsing you.

David: Absolutely. You can start with anybody that you can think of as a consultant, and this is probably the key factor for client acquisition quickly is think of anybody in your local town, in your city that has access to a database of business customers.

Michael: I know you’ve heard this over and over again. I hear it all the time. The consultants are worried that they don’t have the credibility. What do you tell them when they say, “Well, I’m scared because how do I go to these people when I don’t have that much credibility? What’s going to make them let me put on a workshop?”

David: That’s a good question, and there’s a lot of ways around that, but I always tell the new consultants that are just starting out to try to start with somebody that they already do business with personally, an independent insurance agent or somebody like that who has a large database of business people. Go talk to them. Talk to your financial planner. Talk to, believe it or not, the pastor at your church.

Michael: Can you do workshops for churches too?

David: Absolutely. They’re a non-profit organization.

Michael: Tell me about maybe a couple star students who are using your system, and where are they seeing some success? What’s going on with them? I’m sure everyone has got one star student.

David: Oh, sure, I’ve got actually several of them, and several of them have already started on the speaker’s circuit along with me just because of their results. We got a video testimonial in yesterday. She’s one of my top students. She generated six figures in her first five weeks with me, and all of that was through those joint venture big workshops. She sent a video testimonial yesterday from France, and she just sent it just to send it. She said, “Hey, David, I just wanted to touch base with you. I am now currently in the south of France, and this is my lifestyle now. I owe 100% of this to you. You can use this anywhere that you want.”

Michael: So, this all sounds beautiful. It really does. I’m just thinking and my consultants are probably thinking, “Hey, okay, this system is a way to really book seats and get people in their seats and present and sell internet marketing services.” My consultants are selling steps to a system that are basically all intellectual property. So, the margins are huge. Your stuff here you do teach how to outsource that, and the margins can be pretty good, but to make it real easy and realistic, maybe a lot of my consultants don’t have the skills to do this. So, why should my consultants outsource this, and then what kind of margins can be made if we’re using your outsource contacts to do all this?

David: The easiest way I guess for me is you can have students that as an example, they teach a room of thirty people. Out of that room of thirty people, they’re going to have to average about ten to twelve client retentions just from that one workshop. That’s about average, about one out of three are going to wind up as a client. If they pick the top level package, which most do, because it’s the only package in there that’s totally hands free. The other packages are, “Hey, if you’ve got somebody that can write emails for you, that’s your best package. You can save some money.”

Michael: Do they get to finance these packages? Or, is it all one time shot?

David: It’s all a one time shot. It’s basically up to the individual consultant. We have several consultants that will get half down, $2,500 down, and then they outsource it all for $1,750. They keep the difference, and then when it’s finished, three to five business days later, they go back, collect the other $2500, and that’s all theirs.

Michael: Okay, so your team is handling all that. Any challenges you guy are having? You’re out there doing a lot of speaking. Are you resources getting bogged down? The worse thing that I can have is have poor execution. If someone is complaining that the work isn’t getting done, that’s going to make me or my consultants look bad. That’s a legitimate concern. You can understand that.

David: Oh, it absolutely is, and we’ve actually got a meeting this weekend – somebody that’s flying in to meet with me personally that does nothing but outsource to the Philippines, and he’s done that extremely successfully for years, because we know as these other joint ventures get together the end of May is one of the biggest ones. That’ll be 300 probably clients coming on board just from that. So, I’ve got to have other steps putting in motion and constantly expanding and getting bigger and bigger and bigger just so I don’t get bogged down and that we can deliver in seven days or less. That’s the key.

Michael: Okay, but now originally when we first started the call, I thought how great internet would be as a foothold in the door to build some credibility and show some ways that they can grow their business, but my consultants are mainly offering package work offline. They could still use your system for filling seats and maybe something small internet wise like a web form or an autoresponder, and then upsell them on their other consulting projects, right?

David: Absolutely, and that was my first thought whenever you explained to me exactly what your consultants are doing. I thought that would be a great fit to use what, I guess, a lot of the other marketers out here are calling client acquisition on steroids, and pack the seats and sell them your product, or sell them your packages that they’re already really familiar with.

Michael: You’ve got these different modules that you teach in your course. There’s seven of them. I’m going to read the module, and then you just give me just a brief one or two sentence thing about what it’s about just so the consultants listening can understand how this thing really is systematized. So, you’ve got module one, selecting a location to pack the house. What’s real important about a location? We talked about the ones when they sponsor you, you can usually use theirs.

David: The location is really important because you have to work out something. If you are doing it in a hotel, and it’s not a non-profit organization, it’s a paid workshop upfront. Then, you can actually choose a couple of different hotels, use them against each other, and get the best deal.

Michael: Okay, how to fill your seats with lightening speed.

David: That one is using the non-profit organizations and/or joint ventures with brick and mortar business owners to tap their client base.

Michael: Step by step workshop contents that will send you hoards of clients.

David: That one is the entire contents that are laid out in a very easy fashion so that they can understand that, “Hey, I understand how to do this. I just don’t want to do it.”

Michael: The hidden closing technique that works every time.

David: That one is really simple. It’s teach, don’t sell. Show, don’t sell.

Michael: I’ve heard opposite. I’ve heard don’t teach and sell, but we talked about it in this interview. You can teach them, but you don’t give them any way to take home what you’ve taught with them.

David: Correct.

Michael: That’s smart. That’s very powerful. The initial meeting with the business owner.

David: That’s very important part of the formula is you have to carry that show, don’t sell attitude directly into the close. I can show you how to do this, if you’ve got a couple of hours. Of course, they don’t have a couple of hours.

Michael: Okay, setting up your own outsourcing network.

David: That one shows them step by step exactly how I set mine up in the beginning. So, it is stuff that I’m currently using and continue to expand with it over and over and over. It’s just non-stop. It just continues to grow. The more I need people, the more come onboard.

Michael: Increasing your volume through demand.

David: That one is setting up a network so that your JV partners actually start referring people to you, and it just grows and grows. It takes on a life of its own.

Michael: So, with this system here, what is a consultant going to get? Is it printed material? Is there audio, video? What’s contained in the package?

David: There’s actually the printed material, the seven different training modules that are in there, step by step, and they’re all designed so that you have to complete the first one before you can go to the second one, and it runs in sequence. They also get about twelve and a half hours of audios that are me explaining step by step how they need to implement that and get it rolling, plus they get the slide presentation that I currently use and they also get the transcripts and a slide audio step by step audio of me actually teaching a workshop slide by slide.

Michael: Okay, the slide presentation is a generic presentation. It’s not branded with your name.

David: No, it’s not.

Michael: Is that all digital or is that shipped?

David: It’s all digital.

Michael: Is there any reoccurring fees, or is it just a one time thing?

David: Just a one time fee.

Michael: Okay, beautiful. David, this has been awesome because you’re really hitting on what consultants really want. They want clients, and they want clients coming to them and running to them like a table rush. I think this system certainly looks like the best leverage way of doing that, better than hitting the phones. That’s for sure.

David: I found out early on that cold calling or pounding the phone or that type thing, you’re going to be successful if you continue to do it as you should, but that gets very old, very quick.

Michael: What about the consultant maybe who is shy, is afraid to get up in front of people and do these workshops? How could they benefit from your system if they’re just not that type of person, but they maybe like doing consulting maybe over the phone or hiding behind their computer? How can they use your system if they’re not that get up in front of people workshop type person?

David: I have had a student that hired somebody to do it for them, and of course, there’s the non-compete agreements and the NDA agreements and everything that has to be signed up front, and it has to be a very special person because the system honestly is so simple that anybody could really take it and run with it.

Michael: So, really, for someone who is afraid to get up in front of a room and to read a slide by slide presentation, this is probably not for them.

David: Correct.

Michael: I appreciate that.

David: That would be my strongest recommendation. If you can’t get up and read the presentation, I would not get it. It’s something that a lot of folks that after they actually got off the porch and went out there and did it, and your guys would be great at that because they’re already off the porch. That’s the only thing that holds everybody back.

Michael: I remember you had a couple of letters, one that could be sent out to businesses and one that could be sent to SBA or it could be modified to send to non-profit organizations. Tell me your experience with those letters. Do they really produce results? Have you got enough response with them? How have you used them? Any feedback on those direct mail letters.

David: It’s really all over the board, and that’s the best honest way to put it. I had some folks that have sent out a couple of hundred of them that got very little response, and then I’ve had another guy that sent out sixty of them and got nine clients.

Michael: Who was he sending them out to?

David: Small business owners.

Michael: And, he got nine clients from that letter.

David: I was like, “Wow!”

Michael: Tell the consultants what that letter to the businesses does.

David: It basically just tells them that I’m a professional business consultant, and you have an unused asset that I can plainly see that could be making you thousands of dollars a month, and it’s very low cost to implement this system. If you want to give me a call, I can set up a free fifteen minute consultation with you. I can tell you how it works, and show it how it’s going to benefit your business.

Michael: So, the letter goes out. The guy calls, “I’ve got your letter.” You set the appointment. So, you do a consultation in person or by phone?

David: I can do either one, but I would prefer to do it in person.

Michael: It’s not going to be your four or five hour workshop. What are you going to do in fifteen minutes to close them?

David: Normally, it stretches out. You know how that goes. You’re in there for the fifteen minutes, which they know better than that too, but I sit down with them, and I basically just get them talking about themselves. That’s the key. I try not to interrupt them too much. I just guide them along the way. I’ll ask them, “Well, look Michael, why shoes? Did you inherit the business? Did you start it from scratch? Tell me how you started this.” Then, I always bring up the two key points. Number one is how are you staying in touch with your current customer base.

Michael: They’re not usually.

David: No, and the second fact is what advertising methods are you currently using and how are you tracking that?

Michael: Let me ask you this. This is a biggie, and I’m sure you experience this. Qualifying – that letter goes out. You want to set up a fifteen minute appointment, but let’s say you’re sending out a lot of these letters and a lot of people want to meet with you, but you’ve got a lot of people who want to milk you for free information. How do you qualify before you’re going to go spend an hour out with that client? What do you do to qualify before you get in the car and go out to his place of business so you’re not wasting your time?

David: That’s a really good question, and sometimes that’s a tough call because a lot of the times, they’ll call you and they’re very, very defensive when they’re on the phone because they know you’re going to sell them something. It’s not the true picture of the person, if you actually get to sit down with them, but a lot of the qualifying things that I’ll ask them is if I need to, I’ll just ask them that question on the phone. This is not about advertising, but let me ask you something. What current advertising methods are you using right now? Then, I’ll name them, and they’re basically using the same four over and over. It never changes. They’re not very inventive.

Michael: What are they using?

David: Yellow pages, which are totally outdated now, print media, ValPak coupons packs which are pretty useless, and then also print media as far as newspapers go, TV, cable, radio advertising and billboards, and that’s pretty much about it.

Michael: You’ve talked to so many businesses recently. What do you tell a guy who is using Yellow Pages now, and how is the internet changing that game?

David: That’s a good question. I actually get more flack from business owners about dropping that one service. They’re very loyal to that, and that can be a tough road, but I tell them point blank, “Look, let me ask you something. How much are you spending on Yellow Pages every month?” Sometimes, it’s a grand a month. I said, “Totally useless. You’re throwing your money out the window, guaranteed.” They go, “How can you say that? I’ve done that for ten years.” I say, “I understand that. Ten years ago, it was effective. Let me ask you something. Do you play golf?” And, most business owners will say, “I try to.” Anything that you can think of that’s a hobby of theirs, well, what do you do for a hobby? Yeah, I play golf. I say, “Let me ask you something. If you were out to look for the latest, greatest driver that would help your game, would you pull out the phone book, or do you jump on Google?” They get it instantly. I say, “What do you think your customers are doing?” They realize that, but just nobody has brought that to them in that way before.

Michael: What do you tell the guy who is spending money on ValPak?

David: How are you tracking that?

Michael: What do they say?

David: I’m not, and most of them will even laugh and say, “Wow, I guess I should be, huh?” I say, “Absolutely, you should be. How do you know what’s working and what’s not working. I guarantee you that if we start tracking the advertising you’re currently using, you’re wasting at least half your budget, at least half.”

Michael: How about cable?

David: You have TV, cable and radio ads.

Michael: They’re spending big money on that.

David: Yes, they are. The last one that I worked with actually last week was a new client that was spending $5800 a month on TV cable ads, and had absolutely no clue if it was even working at all. So, I told him he needed to change that. Since he already had a contract with them for two remaining months, I said, “You need to have them insert some sort of a special in there or something that you can track that tells you if that’s actually working. Get your cost per spot and divide by the amount that it’s selling for you, and you can figure out your return on investment.”

Michael: So, you’re still out there consulting with clients, and you don’t have to because you have this big machine going especially with your back end stuff. Why even bother? Why are you still working with clients one on one?

David: That’s a passion of mine. It really is. I love speaking with small business owners. I love being able to help them. That’s the key. Even my wife would tell you that it still gets to me because I drive down Main Street and I see an out of business sign or for sale, gone out of business. That really bothers me. It really bothers me because I think if I could’ve gotten to them before, I may have been able to do something to turn that business around. I guess the biggest key though is showing them that by not tracking their advertising, they’re wasting tons and tons of money that they could keep in their business for stuff that is working.

Michael: David, this has been great, and I appreciate it.

David: Yes, and I appreciate you. Anything I can do with you in the future, let me know. I’ll help you as much as I possibly can.

Michael: Thank you very much. I think my consultants are going to love this. All right, bud, have a great rest of the week.

David: Okay you too, Michael. Thanks a lot.

Michael: Thank you, bye.